Here's an aggregation of a recent discussion on the nature of the forward stroke initiated by the inquisitive Tom Bamonte. Enjoy!
Haris
Tom Bamonte:
This question came to mind when I was swimming yesterday. The instructions I've seen for doing the crawl--i.e., forward swimming stroke--emphasize the importance of pulling your hand down past your hip and getting a nice push at the end. Yet, the instructions I've seen and gotten for the forward paddling stroke for the most part encourage you to truncate your stroke and bring your paddle out of the water sooner rather than later. A "push" at the end of the stroke with the paddle behind your hip is discouraged on the ground that you waste energy and lift water for little good purpose.
Two forward strokes but fundamentally different approaches to how to end the stroke . . . for the most part. Why?
I say "for the most part" because a few years ago I had a class with an accomplished Brit. He told us in hushed tones that he and his colleagues were starting to leave their paddles in the water longer and push against the wake and the turbulence between the wake and the boat at the end of each forward stroke.
Is this a case of one forward stroke for beginners--"start lifting your blade when it is by your hip"--and another forward stroke for more advanced paddlers? Or are boats and people so different that you can't compare these forward strokes?
Tom Heineman:
Being a swimmer and a kayaker, I would like to throw my nickel into the discussion.
I am assuming we are not talking about winged paddles which do their own thing up front.
I happen to leave my paddle in longer than most, but I tend to not be the fastest paddler around. I suspect that there may be different strokes for different folks and different purposes. If you are doing long distance, moderate speed, you might have a different stroke than for short distance or sustained higher speed. I can tell you that I do an extra long stroke and pretty much did that for 20 miles a day, day after day when traveling around the lake. I think the important thing is that you are pushing water backward since this is what makes you go forward (same as swimming). The power part of the stroke is definitely in the front, but do you want to put all your effort on that part of the stroke or do you want to use more muscles and different muscles by extending the stroke a bit?
The same is absolutely true of swimming. One of the coaches I have on my Northwestern Masters Swim Team was the 2007 Big Ten champion for the 100 yard free. He has taught me that a sprint stroke is very different from a middle distance or long distance stroke. The Sprint stroke is shorter with faster turnover with the emphasis on the front part of the stroke; distance swimmers have elongated strokes (with the obligatory push at the end). High turnover, arms in exactly opposite positions is the rule for sprints. Long distance swimmers tend to have more of a "catch up" stroke (if you are familiar with that drill). I do very different strokes if I am doing a 1650 yd race vs. a 50 yard race. The same goes for the kicking… sprinters do more than 6 beats per stroke cycle (I probably do an 8 beat kick when sprinting), distance swimmers may be doing less than 6 beats per stroke cycle.
I will be interested in the kayak forward stroke gurus take on this. I do not consider myself a forward stroke guru at all. I just know what I do. I am sure Tim F, Kristin, Jim T. or Scott F. and others may have some more well thought out views on this.
John Tebbens:
Obviously, racers are not "beginners" so it wouldn't be a stroke just for them. In rapid, efficient succession out at the hip is all that works.
Can you get propulsion at the end of the stroke behind the hip? The answer is absolutely, but not with the efficiency of a racing stroke or fast forward stroke.
Also, keeping the paddle in the water past the hip is necessary for minor directional course corrections like stern draws – which I'm certain you do all of the time in a leisurely paddle.
Something to look for the next time you paddle a racing stroke with lifting at the hip, is that the paddle blade seems to snap back as you lift it from the water because it is under so much pressure in that very moment that the instant the pressure is released (nothing but air on the power face) you literally feel a snap like a fishes tail. If you leave your paddle in the water longer than that behind the hip, then that paddle bending under pressure thing becomes relieved under the water and pressure in front begins to build (on the back face) and begins to causes drag. (An Example similar to this is if you have ever ice skated, cross-country skied or roller bladed, your last push is off the pressure you have built during the full length of the stroke and then you snap/leap/push of that and if you have gone too far can actually feel you have missed the strongest point of the building pressure and switching feet becomes more of a recovery operation than one of efficient propulsion.)
If you understand this, then I can tell you a little something I've learned about catching and riding waves : )
Kristin Flentye:
My two cents...
The theory that letting the paddle go past vertical is inefficient in forward stroke is pretty universal and taught all the way up. I know very little about the dynamics of swimming and why it's different but I can find two things I notice on this point:
- In open water, I feel much more comfortable with a faster rate stroke. I can adjust to chop quicker, brace quicker and maintain a good speed. If I let the paddle pass my hip, I'm compromising some stability (in possibly over-rotating) as well making the recovery time longer. The most stable point is during paddle entry (why wait so long to get there?)
- Think back to Michael Phelps' super-photo finish at the Beijing games. He took another stroke, the 2nd place guy didn't. You are naturally going to be faster with more forward momentum. Forward momentum comes from taking another stoke, not gliding. Forward stoke theory is influenced a lot but sprint kayaking. Their goal is to be fast for a short period of time, so those extra seconds you can eek out of a slightly higher frequency (i.e. shorter stroke) can make a big difference.
Haris:
I've been musing the forward stroke for quite some time now. Seems to me it's both, Tom. Or maybe they are the same? Read on.
First, I've had the same 'unofficial' feedback from a heavily decorated local racer and instructor--there's nothing wrong with pulling the blade past your hips. The only caveat is that the technique is proper and one is not pulling the water up at the end of the stroke. It's not the optimal paddle angle but how about this: neither is the paddle angle at the beginning of the stroke. Have you ever heard anyone encourage the planting of the blade as close to hips as possible in order to avoid pushing the water down?
That's one side of the issue. On other hand, there are at least two fundamental differences between kayak paddle stroke and freestyle swimming stroke. First, the hand can be kept at an optimal angle for propulsion all the way to the end of the stroke because it has the wrist. Paddle can't. Even bent shaft paddles or wing paddles with their departures from a straight line will still quickly deviate from the perpendicular angle to the direction of travel as they approach the end of the stroke.
The second difference is that propulsion in swimming does not come from the torso. Past the hips, kayak propulsion becomes primarily the hand stroke as the torso rotation beyond that point is not possible ... or is it? Here's where things become murky.
Maybe, when we are instructed not to go past our hips, what is meant is not to go past the plane defined by one's shoulders rather than a physical place on the kayak hull where the hip joint touches the seat. When torso is fully unwound at the end of the stroke and the paddle is over 1 foot away from the gunwale the difference between the two could be quite substantial. What is well behind your hips by one definition becomes quite in line with the hips by another.
South African school headed by Dawid Mocke advocates bending the upper arm during the forward stroke. Instead of punching forward the paddler is advised to swipe the upper hand across his/her forehead. If you watch the competitive K1 racers, they distinctly bend the elbows on their upper arms too. Among other things, this contributes to keeping the blade closer to the optimal perpendicular as far as the surface of the water goes. With this approach, you can keep the paddle in the water longer without lifting.
What do you think?
Scott Fairty:
I don't think there is a single "perfect" forward stroke.
I use at least 5 distinct forward strokes, each for a specific purpose.
Sprint
Race
Cruise
Mozy
and in its own category
Slider
Each of the first 4 are on a continuum of 2 characteristics: Verticality of the paddle, and length of the stroke.
The sprint provides a burst of speed and gets the boat moving from a dead stop. It is exceptionally vertical (almost canoe-like), is very short and choppy, and uses less torso and more arms. It's used when accelerating to catch a wave, to start moving in to rescue a capsized paddler, or anytime you need quick acceleration. You would rarely need more than 4-6 sprint strokes in a row.
The Race would be what most coaches would teach as "THE" high-angle forward stroke. It is most efficient at driving the boat fast forward in a straight line.
The Cruise is a more relaxed Race stroke, it is slightly more horizontal, enters the water slightly farther back, exits the water slightly farther back and uses a tiny bit less torso. It's the stroke for covering distance. Its advantage is that it is both efficient at moving the boat forward and energy efficient. There are very few paddlers that can maintain the Race stroke for 6 hours but almost all of us can do a respectable Cruise stroke all day.
The Mozy is what you would typically see most recreational paddlers doing. It is very horizontal, travels a long distance through the water, relies heavily on arm and not torso muscles and is designed to get you nowhere in a hurry. It's great for just poking around.
If you could only be taught one forward stroke then it should be the Race because it is perhaps the least intuitive of the 4 strokes but the most efficient. When you get tired, you will naturally drop the top hand and lengthen the Race so it becomes the Cruise or if you get really tired, the Mozy (the Mozy is sometimes called the "Please Tow Me Now" stroke).
The Slider is in its own category. I use it on long distance days to rest the muscle groups used in the Race and Cruise strokes without having to actually stop paddling. It is very horizontal and the blade travels out to the side of the boat rather than from the knee to the hip. I'm sure one of our Traditional paddlers could explain it better (since I stole it from a stick paddler).
The first is of Scott Shipley in a slalom boat. You can see the splash left from his blade exit that he pulls the paddle at or in front of his hip.
The second is of a tandem team at an international sprint competition. Their exit is also at the hip.
Photos can also be slightly deceiving as to where the blade actually leaves the water because the boat is continually traveling forward as the blade is leaving the water, giving the impression that the blade is exiting further back than it actually is.
The third is a graph of the measured force on the paddle blade during a paddling sequence on an ergometer. The first graph is for the right blade, the second for the left blade. Notice that the force increases dramatically in the very beginning of the stroke, peaks when the paddle is at maximum verticality, then decreases as the blade passes vertical. This suggests that you are getting significantly diminishing returns on your energy investment the longer your stroke continues past vertical.
One thing we can say for sure is that if you put the paddle in the water and pull on it, the boat's gonna move in that direction. Exactly what is the best way to do that is going to depend on the boat, the body, the blade, and what you are trying to accomplish.
Jim Tibensky:
I have been out of town and away from emails, so sorry for the slow response.
Haris pretty much gave my position on the kayak stroke part. I can't speak to swimming because I was never much of a good swimmer.
I know that for me and a lot of very good kayakers, bringing the blade past the hip is OK. I have been criticized about my stroke being too long for most of my paddling career. What I found interesting about that was the people saying I did it wrong could not beat me in a race. And the people who did beat me, those hundreds of good paddlers, never criticized my stroke.
I once watched Nigel Foster's stroke when we were talking and paddling and he was clearly paying more attention to the conversation than his paddling style. His style was perfect, but what struck me was how far back his blade went behind his hip on each stroke. Looked a lot like what I do. And, like me, he let the paddle sort of 'trail off' behind and 'float' up to the surface rather than 'snap' it out at the end of the stroke.
My thought is that it takes less energy to do this as opposed to lifting the paddle out any sooner than necessary. I mean, we're just cruising - why strain ourselves?
The end of my normal kayak stroke is also out about a foot away from the hull. This, again just my thought - no science involved - is that I am using the wake that comes off my hull at the cockpit. I am using it as 'dense' water that gives me extra push at the end where the water outside that wave would have less pressure to offer. This characteristic is also one many really good paddlers (without wing paddles which require this movement) have in their strokes.
Scott Fairty gave a perfect explanation of what stroke style to use when. My 'cruising' stroke happens to be my racing stroke except, as Scott said, when I need a burst of about five seconds of pure speed. My sprint racing coach (this was in 1969, so it may be too outdated a technique to be useful anymore) convinced me that the best way to get pure speed out of my stroke was to concentrate not on paddling fast, but concentrate on snapping the blade out of the water at the end of the stroke. Just get it out as fast as possible. This both shortened my stroke in the water and ramped up my cadence.
Yes, there are diminishing returns with keeping the blade in the water too long. But there is some return unless, as Haris pointed out, you are lifting the water at the end. As long as the blade is pushing water rather than lifting, you're not hurting yourself by having a long stroke. The way to avoid lifting at the end is to slice the blade slightly to the side at the very end of the stroke.
I really like Haris' thought that we don't teach anyone to shorten the beginning of the stroke - only the end. I have known a few racers who actually did shorten the beginning. They were kayakers who paddled as though they were using a canoe blade. Mike McCormick, the slalom champion, was one. I think (again - no science) that we do, indeed, push down at the beginning of a kayak stroke. I can think of no other reason to explain the large triceps muscles of kayak racers. What happens in this downward motion is that we are trying to lift the front of the boat out of the water. Since gravity doesn't permit this, the effort moves the boat through the water instead. This provides propulsion. Lifting at the end of the stroke tries to push the bow down, which does nothing for propulsion except in a negative way.
I also agree with Haris' point that a person with lots of torso rotation, like a racer, is not so much paddling behind his or her hip as much as keeping the blade in the plane of the shoulders.
There is a bit of voodoo in a lot of the teaching of the forward stroke. Many Olympic champions, in the past before wing paddles anyway, had strokes that were not standard and some were even odd-looking. It is important to remember that people's bodies are different. A tall paddler with long arms and a light frame (think Tom Bamonte) is going to be a different thing altogether than a short, chunky paddler with short arms (I won't give an example.) And just as different from those types will be you or me. A good instructor is tolerant of idiosyncrasies as long as they are not going to cause physical problems – such as bending the wrist of the reaching arm or gripping too tightly. It really is different strokes for different folks.
What matters most is "does it work?" If yes, then it's good. If the question is "is it perfect?" then an even longer conversation will be needed.
I would love to have this discussion on the water with all the contributors there. We could demonstrate what we are describing and hash it out by doing instead of talking.
***
Look at this for some ideas about how the forward stroke looks when done in sprint races:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvCSWDyScGE&feature=fvw
Notice that, even with wing paddles which require a very specific technique, there is some (small) variation in things like: How high the reaching arm goes, how much the boat rocks, how much the head rotates with the torso, how long the stroke is in the water, how far back the blade goes in the water, and the cadence.
Notice as well, very important, what the knees are doing. Without good leg action, there is not much power in any stroke. Ditto the crossover of the reaching arm.
If you care, the speeds attained in the shortest sprint race at the World's (200 meters) are 12 mph for a K-1 and 14.5 mph for a K-4. At 1000 meters the speeds are 10 mph for K-1 and 12 mph for K-4.
With a K-4 it is easy to pull a water skier.
Finally, thank your stars that you don't paddle a sprint canoe!